On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Rep. Mike Waltz, incoming Trump administration national security adviser
- Brett McGurk, the White House National Security Council coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa
- Sen. Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina
- Sen. Tim Kaine, Democrat of Virginia
- Save the Children president and CEO Janti Soeripto
- Anthony Salvanto, CBS News director of elections and surveys
Click here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan, and this is Face the Nation.
The cease-fire is in place. The prisoner swap is under way. Is this the beginning of the end of the devastating war in Gaza? Phase one of this fragile deal is unfolding just hours before America begins its own handover of presidential power.
Change is coming to Washington. And despite the expected pomp and pageantry, the challenges facing our 47th president are numerous and sobering.
We will talk about the immediate ones with the incoming national security adviser, Mike Waltz. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham and Democrat Tim Kaine will also join us.
Is the cease-fire deal the beginning of a new way forward for peace in the Middle East? We will talk with a key Biden negotiator of the truce and explore the humanitarian crisis facing the youngest victims of the war in Gaza – just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning. As we come on the air, there is good news to report. We are awaiting official word that the first three hostages have safely crossed the border out of Gaza and are back home in Israel. But what you are seeing here now are the crowds awaiting their return.
They are, and CBS can confirm, in the custody of the Red Cross.
We begin today with our Elizabeth Palmer reporting from Jerusalem – Liz.
ELIZABETH PALMER: The day began with a tense delay, as Hamas failed to identify the hostages it was going to release and then Israel launched fresh attacks on Gaza.
Then, suddenly, at 11:15 local time, the cease-fire fell into place.
(Begin VT)
ELIZABETH PALMER (voice-over): The first three hostages released by Hamas were handed over to the Red Cross in Gaza to begin their journey home, Romi Gonen, who was kidnapped from the Nova Music Festival, Emily Damari and Doron Steinbrecher, both seized from their kibbutz, Kfar Aza.
That was 471 days ago, when, on October 7, 2023, Hamas terrorists abducted or killed more than 1,000 people in Southern Israel. Within hours, Israel’s military was bombing Gaza. Fifteen months later, it’s too soon to say the war has ended, but it is on pause.
Hamas and some of its supporters were celebrating the cease-fire as a victory. As part of the deal, Israel is supposed to release almost 100 Palestinian prisoners from jail later today.
Mohammad El-Halabi is expected to be one of them. His family in Gaza is waiting anxiously.
(RIHAL SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
ELIZABETH PALMER: “He was arrested when I was only 3 years old,” says his daughter,” Rihal (sp?), “and I’m now 12.”
There are scars on both sides. Noa Argamani, a former hostage abducted at the Nova Festival, was rescued after eight terrifying months.
NOA ARGAMANI (Former Hostage): I lived in a fear every single day. I didn’t want the guarders to suddenly lose control and kill me. All the terrorists was armed with many weapons, knife and grenade. I lived in a war zone. Every second felt like the last second of my life.
ELIZABETH PALMER: So much could go wrong with this complex deal. For a start, it has to hold for months if all the hostages are to be freed. And it depends on two parties with internal rifts, Israel’s government, whose right wing is fiercely opposed to the cease-fire, and Hamas, which has a weakened and divided leadership.
GERSHON BASKIN (Israeli Hostage Negotiator): And there’s no reason why they should trust each other.
ELIZABETH PALMER: Gershon Baskin is a former hostage negotiator.
So there will be breaches?
GERSHON BASKIN: Definitely.
ELIZABETH PALMER: Is there a mechanism to deal with the inevitable accusations and breaches and hiccups?
GERSHON BASKIN: This time around, there is. It’s called Donald Trump.
ELIZABETH PALMER: Everyone who wants this deal to hold is pinning hopes on Washington’s authority. That includes Gazans who are hungry and desperate for aid to arrive and the hostages’ families, who want their loved ones back, alive or dead.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We are joined now by Congressman Mike Waltz. He’s the incoming national security adviser to president-elect Donald Trump.
Good to have you here.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ (R-Florida) (Incoming U.S. National Security Adviser): Good to be with you. Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I understand, just yesterday, you were meeting with the families of some of the hostages being held in Gaza, at least three Americans assessed to still be alive and in captivity.
One of them might not be released until phase two, when male soldiers are released and Israeli troops withdraw. Will the Trump team see this through to completion?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well, remember, the terms of the deal that we finally have come to was inherited in many ways from the Biden administration.
So it was actually the Biden negotiators that were at the table, and the – the other side was dealing with them, but kind of looking to us, particularly Steve Witkoff, President Trump’s Middle East envoy.
And one of the things that we inherited was this framework of women, the elderly and the sick coming out first. The – one of the Americans is an Israeli soldier. He – that means he’ll come out in the second phase, but we will get him out, period.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Edan Alexander.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: And I – Edan Alexander.
And I am convinced, Margaret, that this deal would have never happened had President Trump not been elected, the Trump effect, so to speak. And the families believe that. They were effusive in their thanks for him and the – – the TRUTH that he put out that put Hamas on notice that there will be consequences if they don’t let our people go.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There is also obviously the party Israel here…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … that feels some pressure to get this done. One far right member of the Netanyahu government resigned. Another this morning said he will bring down the Netanyahu government if it does not return to fighting in a way that leads Israel to taking over the entire Gaza Strip.
Does Mr. Trump support annexation of the West Bank and Gaza?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well – excuse me – very different things.
What we’re talking about here is making sure that Hamas is destroyed as a terrorist organization. Hamas is no different than ISIS or al Qaeda or any of the worst of the worst that has so brutalized the Middle East over the years.
And what we have made clear to Bibi Netanyahu, to his government – and I want the Israeli people to hear me loud and clear – if Hamas reneges on this deal, if Hamas backs out, moves the goalposts, what have you, we will support Israel in doing what it has to do, number one, and, number two, Hamas will never govern Gaza.
That is completely unacceptable, because they’ve made their intention clear, which is to destroy Israel and to have future October 7’s. So I understand the concern. But, at the end of the day, Prime Minister Netanyahu supported this deal. He agreed we needed to get those hostages out.
And within the next 24 hours, we will see – we will see three women coming out alive and hugging their families. And had we not entered this, these people would have died, Margaret. I mean, these conditions that they were in – by the way, they’ve been held now longer than the hostages in 1979 in the Iranian hostage crisis.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: They were being brutalized, raped, tortured. It was horrific.
But now we’re going to have a Reagan moment. We are going to have President Trump being sworn in as hostages are coming out alive, and that’s something we should all celebrate.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve also said, though, that you want to build on this to eventually get peace between Israel and Saudi Arabia, normalization.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: That’s right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The price of that is recognition of a Palestinian state, according to Saudi Arabia.
Does Mr. Trump support a two-state solution? Hamas doesn’t want two states. The far right in Israel doesn’t want two states.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does Mr. Trump?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well, President Trump’s plan in his first term, his plan for the Middle East and his plan for Israel and Palestine had a pathway to a two-state, with all kinds of very important qualifiers that had to be in place beforehand, stop radicalizing the next generation of Palestinian youth, very specifics – components of that plan in terms of how things would be divided up.
But I do think we can get to the next round of the Abraham Accords. We – I do think we can expand it, and that will be between Israel and Saudi Arabia, which will be tremendous. That has been a main goal of the Netanyahu government now for years.
And, Margaret, I can tell you, for President Trump, if – in a short amount of time, if we’re talking about infrastructure projects, ports, rails, fiber, data center, if we’re talking about all of those things, these historic animosities will become smaller and smaller and smaller, and that is the piece that he seeks and that only he can lead.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Mr. Huckabee, the possible future ambassador to Israel, is wrong when he says that Mr. Trump does not believe in a two- state solution in the future?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well, I have spoken to…
MARGARET BRENNAN: He said that yesterday on FOX.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Yes.
No, I have spoken to him. And it’s – it’s, how do we eventually get there, right? And what we eventually want is the Abraham Accords and that next round, right? And there is a lot of room. Both can be true. We are going to protect Israel. We are going to make sure that they are defended.
But, eventually, we’re going to come to some accommodation that Saudi Arabia is comfortable in entering into that deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: To lead to a Palestinian state? That’s what they’re asking.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well, we’ll see exactly…
MARGARET BRENNAN: A process.
(CROSSTALK)
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: … what that looks like. That process is going to – is going to be long.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: And what – you know, what was so interesting about the first administration was that we shifted the dynamics.
We brought Israel and the Arab states together because of their mutual concern about Iran and its hegemonic aggression, and what the ayatollahs intend – intended to do. We sat the Palestinian issue aside for a bit…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: And that is what – I think the framework we’ll get back to.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s a lot to get to.
So I want to ask you what we should expect in terms of executive actions in these early days from Mr. Trump.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Oh, well, look, we’re going to have his campaign promises that he promised to the American people right out there on the table, in terms of border, in terms of energy, in terms of taking on this kind of DEI, woke culture that has infected so many parts of our federal government, including our military, returning us to a meritocracy.
He’s got a lot in front of him. I’m excited to be a part of it. I can’t emphasize enough though, Margaret, on the border, the American people gave him a clear mandate, lock down our border, deport the worst of the worst, take on the cartels. We cannot have a situation where we have paramilitary gangs that are shooting down aircraft with heavy weapons, controlling 30 percent of our neighbor Mexico and controlling whole swathes of our border.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re talking about perhaps an executive order designating cartels as a terrorist group or designating in some way?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: I don’t want to get ahead of the announcements.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: But we have to – we have to deal with them with what they are.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: These are – these are paramilitary organizations with billions at their disposal, with armored vehicles, heavy machine guns that are fighting the Mexican army, not police, army, to a standstill.
President Trump was clear on the campaign trail that we’re going to take them on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: And then we’re going to use every resource that we need to defend the American people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We are seeing in our polling that there is a lot of approval for the president-elect’s plan to deport immigrants who are here illegally.
But understanding how that works is something I want to ask you. Can you tell us anything about the scope and scale of the roundups that we should expect in these first few days?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well, I think they’re going to be – they’re going to be quite aggressive, number one.
Number two, they’re going to go after these criminal gangs that are terrorizing our cities, particularly MS-13, and particularly Tren de Aragua. Our communities are asking for it. Our neighbors are asking for it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Where are you going to deport them to? Because one of those Tren de Ara – excuse me.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Aragua, yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Tren de Aragua is Venezuelan. You can’t deport to Venezuela. So where are you going to send those people?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well, we’re in a number of conversations with a number of countries that will agree to take them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. So that’s a big diplomatic initiative you’re a part of?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Yes, that’s right. That’s right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: TikTok took itself offline at midnight because of this national security law that you signed on to as – as a congressman which recognizes that TikTok, owned by a Chinese firm, ByteDance, is a national security threat.
But, on this notice, it says Donald Trump has promised to work with them. If Mr. Trump issues an executive order that bypasses a national security law, isn’t this a risk? I mean, how are you going to prevent China from doing what you say they’re doing already…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … which is siphoning up and spying on Americans?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well, look, I would – I would even point to the author of the law, former Representative Mike Gallagher, who has put out, you know, his goal was never to eliminate TikTok. It was to allow Americans to use it, but then to make it safe from Chinese Communist Party interference.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was to have an American owner of it.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well, right.
So what we need between now and Monday is to buy the president some time to evaluate those deals. And, if it goes dark, that’s going to be, obviously, extremely problematic. So both can be true. We can have an app that Americans can – Americans can enjoy, but at the same time that protects their data and protects them from outside influence and undue influence.
And that’s the time and space that the president is seeking. And as a dealmaker, I think we all should be confident that he can craft that kind of a deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have TikTok and ByteDance told you that they’re actually interested in selling?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well, the president worked with – spoke with President Xi, again, very top-down, authoritarian system that he is in.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You think he is the ultimate decider?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: And they – and they – and they agreed to work together on this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, President Xi is acknowledging that he has control of ByteDance and TikTok?
(CROSSTALK)
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Not explicitly, but I will tell you, every company in China has – in some way or some form has to report to or has a member of the Chinese Communist Party on its board.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And must share information, at the request of the Chinese Communist Party?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Well, that was the concern of a lot, right?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: And so…
MARGARET BRENNAN: And Tom – Tom Cotton is saying that just now, the Republican running the Intelligence Committee.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Sure. Sure.
And, again, you know the – the author of the law is saying both can be true. We can have an app that protects Americans. And I could tell you, I wouldn’t want the FBI or the U.S. government monitoring every keystroke or seeing every password, nor would we want the Chinese Communist Party.
But we also want an app that 170 million Americans clearly really enjoy and that we were able to get our message out during the Trump campaign in a very powerful way.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you believe that an American owner will emerge and a deal will be done within 90 days?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: I don’t want to get ahead of President Trump on the deal, but he is definitely wanting to have the time right now, which would mean an extension, to evaluate the deals that are on the table.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. The head of – the Republican head of the Intelligence Committee says the law wouldn’t allow for that, because you need to show that there was significant progress.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: No, actually, the law says, if there’s a viable deal on the table.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, exactly.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Right? I know of at least…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re saying there is a viable deal?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: And I know of at least one from Kevin O’Leary that’s been delivered to ByteDance, that the – the point is, what is a viable deal?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: The president needs the time with the Department of Justice to evaluate what viable means. And we can’t do that if the thing is completely dark.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ll be on the job starting at noon Monday?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE WALTZ: Honor of my life. Thanks so much.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mike Waltz, thank you.
We’ll be back in a minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn to Brett McGurk, White House National Security Council coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa.
Good to have you here, Brett.
BRETT MCGURK (White House National Security Council Coordinator For the Middle East and North Africa): Thanks, Margaret. Great to be here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re watching the breaking news. This is a deal you negotiated. What can you tell us about how these three women who have been transferred to the Red Cross are doing?
BRETT MCGURK: Well, I just confirmed with my Israeli counterparts that they’re now in Israeli custody. So this has just happened.
Look, I know they’re alive. I’m sure they are in – that they’ve been held in deplorable conditions over 470 days, but the Israelis have a very good system to take them into their care, and they’re going to get the care they need and be reunited with their families.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It appeared that, even up until this morning, it was in question whether Hamas was going to go through with this. The Israelis said they hadn’t handed over the names of the captives.
Do we – why? And do we know much about the well-being of the three Americans that are still being held?
BRETT MCGURK: Well, look, this deal was negotiated over a year, for good reason.
It’s a detailed, complex arrangement to leave nothing to chance. And even up to last night, I was up until 4:00 in the morning, when this finally went into place, to make sure that everything went according to the plan. Hamas owed the list of the three names. That had to happen for the cease- fire to go into effect.
That was delayed a couple hours. It eventually happened, and now we have the news today. You have a full cease-fire in effect in Gaza. You have about 800 trucks of aid getting into Gaza today. And you have had…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Eight hundred?
BRETT MCGURK: Eight hundred trucks of aid should reach Gaza today. And you’ve had the three girls now, again, reunited, hopefully with their families, and they’re now in Israeli custody.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the U.N. says an average of 72 trucks per day went in, in December, and that’s been the case in January. Is there even the capacity for the Israelis to search these trucks and allow in that food? Do you expect 800 trucks to make it into Gaza today?
BRETT MCGURK: That’s why – that’s why I have been in the Middle East for the last month nonstop to make sure everything is ready to go. This was not put together in the last week. This has been put together really since May, when President Biden laid out this framework.
He developed this framework with the emir of Qatar and with the president of Egypt, President Sisi. He announced it to the world in May. It was unanimously endorsed by the U.N. Security Council. We thought we were close in August, Margaret, and then we had six hostages killed in a tunnel underneath Rafah.
I was just in your green room talking to the mother – or speaking with the mother of Hersh Goldberg-Polin, who was killed tragically in August. It was that incident in August, when Hamas killed those hostages, that we decided to flip the script. There was not a deal because Hamas would not agree to release hostages.
We supported the Israelis in going after Hezbollah. They took out Hezbollah. That…
MARGARET BRENNAN: In Lebanon.
BRETT MCGURK: In Lebanon.
We have a cease-fire in Lebanon. We have a new government in Lebanon. That isolated Hamas. Iran is in the weakest position it’s been in the Middle East in decades. So, when we went back to the table in December, Hamas, for the first time, for the first time, was ready to accept the May framework and begin to release hostages.
It wasn’t until early January that they actually approved the hostage list, and that’s how we got to the result today.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But do we know, Keith Siegel, Sagui Chen, and Edan Alexander, how they’re doing?
BRETT MCGURK: Keith will come out in phase one. Sagui will come out in phase one. Edan was a uniformed Israeli soldier. He is phase two. But we are committed.
And I think you just heard this from Mike Waltz, and we’ve been working seamlessly with the incoming team. I think this is a testament to President Biden and to President Trump, allowing us to work together. I worked with Steve Witkoff over the last week, again, a partnership, I think historic, to help get this done.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Trump’s envoy.
(CROSSTALK)
BRETT MCGURK: And we are committed – We are committed to getting Edan out as early as possible. I spoke with Adi Alexander, Edan’s father, just last night.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Prime Minister Netanyahu described this overnight as a temporary cease-fire. And he says he has permission to begin fighting as needed.
Do you believe he sees this as just a strategic pause, or that he actually wants to end this war?
BRETT MCGURK: The way the deal is structured, on day 16, the negotiations begin for phase two. Phase two will begin a negotiation for the exchange of soldiers to Palestinian prisoners.
But, also, the conditions have to be set for phase two, and we support the Israelis in making sure those conditions are set, so Hamas can never come back to power in Gaza, Hamas can never again threaten Israel from Gaza.
Those conditions have to be set. We in the Biden administration have been very clear. We want to see this – this deal reached, all three phases, every hostage come home. I think the Trump administration very much shares that objective. And the template, the road map, again, that the president set out in May, this was the road map ultimately to ending the war, getting everybody home, is the only way to do it.
That road map is now in place. We have a cease-fire today in Gaza, and we have a good chance to get every hostage home, and we have got to do everything we can to make that happen.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Hamas, according to Secretary Blinken, has recruited almost as many new militants as it has lost over the course of this war. Blinken said that this week.
BRETT MCGURK: Hamas has been significantly decimated. Its leader, Yahya Sinwar, was killed in October. Without that, we would not be at this deal.
Hamas on October 7 was an organized military formation. It invaded Israel with 3,500 troops in military formations, combat brigades. It is now no longer able to do that. It does not have military capacity.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But that argues that Israel has done something that may backfire on them, in terms of the humanitarian situation that has allowed Hamas not to lose support, but to continue to recruit.
BRETT MCGURK: To get the – I – I worked closely with my Israeli colleagues. I spent hours with Prime Minister Netanyahu. This is a deal that he fully supports. They agree. There’s a moral debt to these hostages. You have to get them out.
And Israel is also going to make sure that it protects its national security. And we’re going to make sure we do that. You know, Margaret, we got this deal without that wider Middle East war that everybody was predicting. Americans did not get drawn into a wider Middle East war.
We defended Israel from Iranian missiles. We supported Israel going after Hezbollah. We supported Israel going after Hamas. We have defanged Iran’s proxy networks around the region, and that led to the isolation of Hamas to actually get this deal today. That’s how we got to this point.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
I have to take a break here, Brett, so don’t mean to cut you off. But we will have more questions, but we have to take a quick break.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And this just came in. President-elect Trump has just announced he plans to issue an executive order tomorrow to postpone the ban on TikTok.
So, all you TikTok users could see it back online possibly very soon.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We’re continuing our conversation now with Brett McGurk of the National Security Council under President Biden.
Brett, I just want to pick up where we left off.
Just this past week President Biden gave one of his last interviews and he shared a private conversation with Prime Minister Netanyahu.
Take a listen to it.
(BEGIN VC)
JOE BIDEN (President of the United States): And I said, but, Bibi, I said, you can’t be carpet bombing these communities. And he said to me, well, you did it. You carpet bombed – not his exact words, but you carpet bombed Berlin. You dropped a nuclear weapon. You killed thousands of innocent people, because you had to in order to win a war.
(END VC)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, President Biden went on to say, that’s why the entire U.N. and international order was created, to stop that from ever happening again.
How much do you think Israel’s standing in the world has been damaged by the conduct of its military?
BRETT MCGURK: (White House National Security Council Coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa): Well, Margaret, that was a conversation early on when the debate was whether or not the Israelis should go in on the ground. And we had a debate with them about that. Ultimately, we supported them, and they were right because Hamas was living in 400 miles of tunnels underneath Gaza. There was no way to root out Hamas without going into Gaza. And, frankly, you can see –
MARGARET BRENNAN: But he was talking about dropping bombs on buildings.
BRETT MCGURK: But you can see Hamas – but I’m just going back to what the conversation was about. It was about how this was going to go. And look, we have worked very closely with the Israelis. Too many people have died in this war. That’s why we’re – we worked so hard to get to where we are today with a ceasefire. The ceasefire today, this framework, the roadmap the president laid out in May, was the only way to end the war. And the only way to end the war was, frankly, with massive pressure on Hamas and knocking out the other proxies that were supporting Hamas.
I just have to emphasize this again, when Hezbollah was firing on Israel every single day, it was Hassan Nasrallah’s position that they would not stop shooting on Israel and making northern Israel a no man’s land until – until Israel accepted all of Hamas’ terms in Gaza. Israel had to knock out Hezbollah to get this deal. That’s what happened with a ceasefire at the end of November. That’s what opened up the space to get this deal.
It’s been a brutal war, but to end it we get we had to get the ceasefire deal. And to do that, to do that, we had to support Israel and back them up, and we did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will see if this ceasefire becomes an end to the war, and there’s more diplomacy ahead.
Brett McGurk, thank you for sharing the details.
We’re going to turn now to Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, who joins us this morning from Seneca, South Carolina.
Good morning to you, Senator.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I imagine you are supportive of this ceasefire and Mike Waltz’s pledge to see it through?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, I very much appreciate what Brett and Steve Witkoff have done. Let me just say this, these people would not be coming out if Donald Trump had not demanded they’d be out. Everything Brett said about pressure on Hamas and Iran is true, but the game changer, when Trump said, I want them out or all hell will be to pay.
Now, here’s what I’m hoping, they come out, the deal holds, but what does the end of the war look like?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: I want to reinforce something to you. This war will never end with Hamas in charge of Gaza.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Politically or militarily. Their days are numbered. And the next question for the world is, what do we do about the Iran nuclear program? That’s where we’re going to move to next.
There’s diplomacy, there’s a one in a trillion chance you’ll degrade the Iranian nuclear program through diplomacy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: There’s a 90 percent chance you’ll degrade it through military action by Israel, supported by the United States. So, the next topic I will be engaging in with President Trump is to take this moment in time to decimate the Iran nuclear program because they’re so exposed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Help Israel deliver a knockout blow.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: It means giving Israel the capability –
MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean? You’re going to urge him to have Israel bomb Iran’s facilities that are underground and would require U.S. military support to actually have – be effective?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’m going to – I’m going to urge the decimation of the Iranian nuclear program. I don’t think diplomacy works. Brett will tell you what they have done to Hezbollah and Hamas has been amazing. The proxies are incredibly weakened. Israel can go anywhere they want to go.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: This is a religious Nazi regime. They want to destroy the Jewish state. They want to purify Islam and drive us out of the Mideast.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well – well –
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: It would be like negotiating with Hitler.
I am hoping there will be an effort by Israel to decimate the Iran nuclear program, supported by the United States. And if we don’t do that, it will be a historical mistake.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Lindsey Graham, I have a lot to get to on the domestic front, but that is quite a marker to lay down.
I want to ask you about what you are working on domestically with Steven Miller, Trump’s homeland security adviser, on border security.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I understand it’s part of the massive Republican reconciliation bill that’s being put together.
Do you have a top line number yet on how much this is all going to cost?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, $100 billion for border security through reconciliation would be enough to hire ICE agents, create new detention beds, and finish the wall and put technology in place over four years. $200 billion will be given to the military to make it more capable of deterring China. $100 billion for border. $200 billion for the military.
I met with Mike Johnson yesterday. He is a dear friend. I admire him greatly. He has a political problem in the House. He wants to – to do one big, beautiful bill. I have never been more worried about an attack on our homeland than I am now with the rise of ISIS in Afghanistan and wars all over the world. I think the number one priority for the Republican Party should be to secure that border. You need new money to do it. And if we don’t, we’re playing Russian roulette with our own national security.
Border first, military funding first. Get the tax cuts and spending reductions put together later on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So –
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: You need to secure that border like our life depended on it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, this bill is going to be bigger than the $300 billion you just laid out.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: It’s going to be a lot bigger.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What’s the timetable on that, because Johnson says Memorial Day.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, I hope we can get there, but to those who want to reduce spending, I’m giving you an opportunity to come meet me next week. You’ve got to cut spending that’s (ph) reconciliation compliant, and we’ve got enough votes to reduce spending.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: So, can we do $2.5 trillion over ten years? Let’s give it a try.
I want to do two things, cut spending and make the tax cuts permanent. The secretary of Treasury, Steve Bessent, said, if the tax cut expires, it will be a catastrophe for our economy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: I don’t believe there’s one Republican out there, if they were pushed, would let the tax cuts expire, because that’s a $4.5 trillion tax increase. I want to cut spending, but my number one priority is to secure that border quickly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it – we will watch the politics of the possible with the very complicated caucus in the House.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you about the Senate, though, because you are on the Judiciary Committee. Kash Patel, the pick to run the FBI, doesn’t even have a hearing scheduled yet. In his 2022 memoire, Bill Barr said of Kash Patel, “he’s someone with no background as an agent, would never be able to command the respect necessary to run the day-to-day operations of the bureau. He has virtually no experience that would qualify him to serve at the highest level of the world’s preeminent law enforcement agency. The idea of moving him into a role like this showed a shocking detachment from reality.”
Was Attorney General Barr wrong then and wrong now?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, I disagree with that. Yes, he was wrong then and he’s wrong now. And I take my advice on Kash Patel from Trey Gowdy, dear friend from South Carolina, who worked with Kash. Kash was a public defender. He was a prosecutor. He worked with Trey Gowdy about the Russia hoax. So, I do think he has the experience. He has the trust of the president. And we’ll see how this plays out. But Trey Gowdy is enthusiastically supporting Kash Patel, and that means a lot to me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well – well, OK. But he’s got a list he’s published, Kash Patel has. He published it in a book of – of enemies. It includes people like the FBI director, Defense Secretary Austin, Bill Barr, former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone, former CIA Director Gina Haskell, the head of CENTCOM.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, we’re going to – well – yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean, do you take him at his word here that – that these are an enemies list and you’re going to put him in a law enforcement role to go after him?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: I – I believe the hearing will expose him to be a very qualified man of the law. He wrote a book. He’ll have to answer questions about what’s in the book. But I’m ready to vote for him because I know him, too. See, he never asked me about the Russia hoax that he exposed. People on the right believe that he was part of the solution, not the problem.
You asked a good question of Brett, has Israel suffered because of this war, they went too far, on the world stage? Here’s what’s happened on the world stage. The International Criminal Court is going to be sanctioned by the Congress –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that’s a –
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Republicans and Democrats, because they’re trying to prosecute the prime minister, defense minister of Israel.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Lindsey, this a – Lindsey Graham, this is a far cry from the question about Kash Patel. You took me all the way to Israel from Kash Patel.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, well, let’s get back to Kash Patel.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you – you’re committing to vote for him no matter what?
GRAHAM: Yes, we’re not – I won’t say no matter what, but I –
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are going to vote for Kash Patel?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, I am ready to vote for Kash Patel because you will never ask me –
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: The role he played in exposing –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: The darkest moment of the FBI –
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Since Edgar – J. Edgar Hoover. That’s why I trust him.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Ask him about going after journalists, which he’s also said. I’m interested in the answer to that question.
We’ll be right back.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, I’m sure – I’m sure our Democratic friends will ask him. And you shouldn’t worry about Kash Patel.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: You should worry about –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Reporting the news fairly –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which –
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Which you don’t do when it comes to everything Trump. So, anyway, thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Lindsey Graham, you’re a guest on this program because we wanted to hear you out.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, good. Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we welcome you back, as we often do.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’ll be back.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Anytime, to legacy media.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’ll be back. Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Kaine.
Good morning to you.
SENATOR TIM KAINE (D-VA): Margaret, great to be with you. Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about some of the positions you hold on key committees that have a role in nominate – or in going through the confirmation process for some of Mr. Trump’s picks.
Senator Rubio is expected to be swiftly confirmed as secretary of state. You expect him in on day one?
SENATOR TIM KAINE: I do. He visited my office before the hearing. He did very well at the hearing. And I think we are likely to act on day one and he’ll get a strong, bipartisan vote.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When it comes to some of the other picks, Democrats have very little say, frankly, because Republicans have this 53-seat majority, so they don’t need Democratic votes. You sharply questioned Pete Hegseth this past week, who is the pick to run the Pentagon. You asked about his willingness to break oaths, having cheated on his second wife and the mother of a child born two months before when he had told police he was having consensual sex with a woman in Monterey, California, who filed a claim of sexual assault and he filed a financial settlement.
Why did you choose to put that issue of character so front and center instead of asking him about policies?
SENATOR TIM KAINE: The – I – I believe he would be a very dangerous secretary of defense. And so my observation of my Republican colleagues is the only reason they ever vote no on a nominee is either a belief of gross incompetence in terms of qualifications or serious character deficit. That’s why Matt Gaetz withdrew, because the Senate Republicans felt, on both of those counts, he was a non-starter.
I believe my questions of Pete Hegseth about his serial infidelity, about the allegation of sexual assault that he refused to disclose to President- elect Trump and the transition team and his own mother’s allegation that he’s a serial abuser of women. I think those are the kinds of things that might affect how Republicans view this. If not in the committee, possibly on the floor.
We’ll see. I think there’s likely to be committee action as early as late tomorrow in the Armed Services Committee. We’ll see when there’s action on the floor.
MARGARET BRENNAN: To actually confirm him.
SENATOR TIM KAINE: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: “The Wall Street Journal” editorial board, which is not liberal by any anyone’s definition, said, “Hegseth made noises about restoring U.S. military deterrents, that’s something, but appears we’re on track to have a secretary of defense whose real views are a mystery.”
Wasn’t it also important to hear what his plans are for China and the like, because it looks like he is going to sail through if Republican leadership can keep Republicans in line and get them all to deliver the votes they need?
SENATOR TIM KAINE: Well, I – and, Margaret, I think they – if you look at the entire hearing, a number of his views were put on the table. I had seven minutes. It was so unusual to have a secretary of defense nominee refuse to even meet with any of the Democratic members of the committee, except for the chairman.
RFK has met with Democratic members. The secretary of labor nominee, secretary of army, secretary of navy, secretary of state, they’re all meeting with the Democratic members of the committee. But when he refused to meet with us, and you only have seven minutes, we divided up topics.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR TIM KAINE: I asked him about what I consider to be glaring faults of character. Other members of the committee asked him about positions on strategy, the role of women in combat, whether he is qualified to run an organization of the size of the Pentagon. I think overall in the hearing we put a lot of material on the table for folks to consider.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you about immigration. You’re a former governor. Incoming border czar Tom Homan has said that there will be massive deportation raids beginning as soon as Mr. Trump takes office. There are just about 300,000 undocumented individuals believed to be living in your state according to Pew Research. And I know your current governor, Youngkin, has pledged to fully support efforts through state law enforcement or the National Guard.
How do you think this is going to work?
SENATOR TIM KAINE: Well, I don’t exactly know how the administration is going to do it, but let me tell you, I’m hearing significant concerns from many sectors in the Virginia economy, agriculture, hospitality, health care, construction, that massive deportation raids would be an absolute gut punch to the Virginia and American economy. And if you add to that the Trump threat of massive tariffs, I think you’re going to see a lot of pain for consumers and a lot of pain for employers if they carry through on mass deportation.
Now, look, you’ve got a president who says a lot of things and then chooses not to do them. So, I don’t know exactly what this is going to look like.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR TIM KAINE: But I would say that the economy of Virginia and the economy of this country is going to suffer through deportation – mass deportations and tariffs if they go forward with what the president has said he will do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the Biden administration prioritizes criminals in their roundups and deportations. The Trump administration says they’re also going to target criminals. Do you think this is going to look different?
SENATOR TIM KAINE: Well, it’s – I do think the Biden administration prioritizes criminals who are a public safety risk, who pose a threat of violence. The Trump administration could go much broader than that. You know, looking at folks – I mean, for example, there’s a bill that’s pending on the – in the Senate right now that would deport people on the basis of an arrest, even if they’ve not been convicted of anything. A shoplifting arrest. Even if they’ve not been convicted of anything. A fundamental aspect of our society is that an arrest doesn’t mean anything unless there’s a conviction.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR TIM KAINE: Because people get arrested all the times for things that they didn’t do. So, if the Trump administration says, look, an arrest leads to deportation even without a conviction, yes, it’s going to look completely different.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR TIM KAINE: Completely different than what the policy has been during the Biden administration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Tim Kaine, thank you for your time today.
We’ll be back in a moment.
SENATOR TIM KAINE: You bet.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We may be seeing the beginning of the end when it comes to Israel’s war with Gaza, but the struggle facing the children in the region is far from over. We want to turn now to Janti Soeripto, the head of Save the Children.
Good morning to you.
JANTI SOERIPTO (President and CEO, Save the Children): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have teams inside of Gaza. We just heard from Brett McGurk, as many as 800 trucks ready to go into Gaza. Have any of yours actually made it in yet?
JANTI SOERIPTO: Not as of ten minutes ago, Margaret. We have 60 trucks waiting in that queue, all loaded up with warm clothing, shoes for kids, pallets with medicines, malnutrition treatment, which is sorely needed. We haven’t as yet seen any go in. But that could have happen over the last couple of minutes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And it’s incredibly difficult just to get in through the security screenings. I think the peak has been 200 or so trucks per day. So, to scale up to 800 is pretty incredible, if they can pull that off.
JANTI SOERIPTO: It’s massive. Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But when I look at some of these statistics, they are just – just jaw-dropping, 1.1 million kids in Gaza –
JANTI SOERIPTO: That’s right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Half the population, need food. They’re in urgent need. Surviving on one meal a day after 15 months of war.
JANTI SOERIPTO: That’s right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What state are these kids in?
JANTI SOERIPTO: Oh, we – there’s estimates that there’s about 300,000 children in real acute need of malnutrition treatment. This is not just food, right, this is a medical treatment to make sure that they don’t get real long-term consequences of their malnutrition, cognitive as well as physical. There are 150,000 pregnant and lactating women inside of Gaza who urgently need micro-nutrients as well to avoid those same consequences. So, the needs are enormous.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I read, and this was particularly heartbreaking, that Save the Children is also going to try to connect more than 17,000 separated children to find family members.
JANTI SOERIPTO: That’s right. It’s going to be a huge effort. You know, it’s a real moment of hope and peril at the same time. We know –
MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you do that?
JANTI SOERIPTO: Well, what we’ll do is to – we do family tracing. So, we’re going to try to find extended family, even – even if no direct parents, extended families, aunts, uncles, nephews, neighbors sometimes, the community where they were, find members from that community, vet them, check backgrounds, and then the painstaking process of reuniting these children who – many of whom have been either displaced or lost or – and some even displaced outside of Gaza, help them reconnect to that community. A lot of mental health, psychosocial support, cash to make sure that that family’s also able to – to care for them, in already a situation of where they’ve – most of them will have lost everything.
So, it’s a long and hard, painstaking process that also needs real sensitive and professional social workers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When will those professionals be able to get in?
JANTI SOERIPTO: Well, we hope as soon as possible.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In phase one?
JANTI SOERIPTO: In – that is the real ask and hope.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In the next six weeks?
JANTI SOERIPTO: We need urgently to get in pediatric medical workers. We need those social workers in. Those case management workers for – to protect children. We need refreshment. We have 250 – a workforce of 250 Palestinians in Gaza who have been at it for 15 months. They are exhausted. They – they also need to get back to their – whatever is left of their homes. We urgently need to be able to surge in adequate capacity and specialism.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Hamas is not going to govern Gaza. They’re not governing Gaza now. It’s – it’s largely chaos.
JANTI SOERIPTO: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How, practically speaking, can you get all of these things done if, as is now Israeli law, the largest organization, UNWRA, is now going to be banned? If the U.N. can’t do this through the U.N. RWA, who does this?
JANTI SOERIPTO: That is going to be problematic. The operational infrastructure from UNRWA is – is massive. We’ve said that now for 15 months. All of us are humanitarian agencies cannot replace UNRWA just like that. If ever. Thirteen thousand UNRWA staff inside of Gaza where –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Schools.
JANTI SOERIPTO: Schools, warehouses, trucks, everything that are being used also by organizations like ours. So, that will be difficult. And we would hope that there will be certain exemptions to allow for that operational effectiveness to happen.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because it would be illegal for you to do any work with them?
JANTI SOERIPTO: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
You have a tremendous amount of work, Janti Soeripto, ahead of you. Thank you very much for sharing with us. And I know you’ve been working in California as well with children out there.
JANTI SOERIPTO: As well. Yes, it’s – it’s – well, we – we try to be there for kids wherever the crisis hits.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Thank you.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today on this very busy Sunday. CBS News will be on the air and streaming starting at 7:00 a.m. Eastern Time tomorrow with “CBS Mornings,” followed by our coverage of the – of Mr. Trump’s second inauguration all day long, including a primetime special at 10:00 p.m. I’ll see you then.
For FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
