The following is a transcript of an interview with business executive Frank McCourt on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Dec. 8, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A panel of federal judges in DC last week upheld a new law that could effectively ban the popular social media app TikTok by mid-January if its Chinese owners do not sell it to a new buyer. Frank McCourt, the Executive Chairman of McCourt Global, and founder of Project Liberty, is one of the potential buyers, and he joins us now. Good to see you here.
FRANK MCCOURT: Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So TikTok says, well, they might go to the Supreme Court on this one. If they don’t, their parent company, ByteDance, has said they’re not interested in selling. Do you have any indication that they will and that the incoming Trump administration would support someone like you buying it?
FRANK MCCOURT: Well yeah, I think where we are now, Margaret, is, there’s three options. You know, one is an appeal. Our lawyers tell us there’s very little chance of a successful appeal by Bytedance, strong bipartisan legislation, a three to zero vote by the three by the appellate court. So now that leaves us with two, a ban or a sale. We don’t want to see it banned. I’d add that President- President-elect Trump, has also said he doesn’t want to see it banned. So now let’s talk about the sale. So we’ve been working for the last eight months on the assumption that the legislation would be upheld and that there would be a sale. So that’s where we are right now, and we’re working very, very hard to be in a position to buy the US portion of TikTok so it’s not shut down.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So what is that worth to you? There are estimates it could be as high as $200 billion in worth.
FRANK MCCOURT: $200 billion would be more more in the range of what the entirety of the platform is worth, not just the US piece. And let’s be clear, the Chinese government has said they’re not selling the algorithm. They view that as IP of the country. So US Tiktok is a piece of bytedance. If it’s sold, it will be sold without an algorithm. So the value will be far, far less than 200- $200 billion. We have circled over $20 billion to be in a position, and we’re very serious about raising whatever capital is required to buy the platform and and to be clear, yeah, we’re looking to move the 170 million users over to a new protocol where the individuals will own and control their identity and their data. We’re not looking to replicate the existing version.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So let’s talk about that. As you said, 170 million Americans use TikTok, especially young people. US law prohibits foreign control of mass media, but this social media space is kind of a loophole here. There aren’t a lot of governing rules in this space. Do you think Congress needs to write new rules of the role- of the road to ban foreign ownership and to put restrictions on even owners like you?
FRANK MCCOURT: I think we need to upgrade our regulations and our policies. There’s no doubt about that. But far more importantly, we need to fix the technology. The internet is broken, fundamentally broken. We heard your guest earlier, Representative Turner, talk about the threat from China on our telecom hack, massive hack, massive threat to Americans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And they’re still in the telecom system.
FRANK MCCOURT: Absolutely. And we heard your recent guests, Representatives Kelly and Crow, talk about the deluge of misinformation and disinformation, the fact that it’s a very dangerous world right now. The reason why the Congress moves so quickly with TikTok to pass the legislation is because it is a national security threat to Americans, and the reason why the judges upheld it is for that same reason. So let’s turn a problem into a solution by taking advantage of this moment, move the 100 and 70 million users over to a new protocol where individuals are respected.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have an indication from President elect Trump that he wants to see an American entity buy this? Because he would also have some influence in the outcome.
FRANK MCCOURT: Of course, as president elect he’ll have massive influence.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have you spoken to him?
FRANK MCCOURT: But President Trump is a deal maker. We know that. I’m a deal-maker. Okay? I’ve been doing business deals my entire- my entire life. Let’s make a deal where everybody wins, where China’s able to sell the US portion of TikTok, where American citizens are protected, and where there’s- and 170 million users continue to enjoy the platform. So he has said he doesn’t want it banned, which means a sale. And the legislation and the- the appellate decision require that this platform be- be owned by Americans. We have built a clean, bottom-up American stack to move this user base over, where there’ll be no Chinese back doors and no ability to to take advantage of American citizens.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re indicating you’ve built out some technology you think that will not allow for government surveillance.
FRANK MCCOURT: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But can you, if you are- whoever owns this is going to be powerful if you get 170 million Americans on a platform, particularly young people, to consume the information on this. System. So what guarantees do you make? Because Facebook and Twitter, they also harvest information about consumers. Would you?
FRANK MCCOURT: Yeah, well, that’s exactly what we don’t want to do. So the reason why we want to move people to a new stack where you can’t harvest without permission, so individuals will own and control their identity and their data permission its use, will actually have an internet that respects people as opposed to exploits them. Imagine empowering people. And to be clear, Margaret, I’m not looking to be the CEO of TikTok. We call it the people’s bid, because we want this to empower people and to stop this nonsense where we’re exploiting people by scraping their data and taking advantage of them, and in the case of Tiktok, actually creating a national security threat.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Elon Musk, who owns X, formerly known as Twitter, now has raised concerns about content moderation, restricting free speech. Do you share that concern, and what restrictions would you put on paid political ads?
FRANK MCCOURT: I mentioned earlier that we need better policies, for sure, but we need better tech right now. We have a tech stack that’s built and these giant apps scrape our data and exploit it. Why not flip the power? Why not actually give people their data back. Our data is our personhood in this age, let us decide how to use it. Let us each decide what moderation we’re comfortable with, what censorship we’re comfortable with, what privacy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, so the Surgeon General says you need a warning label, because this is damaging the mental health of young people in this country. Should people under the age of 16 have access?
FRANK MCCOURT: Under the current tech stack, I agree with the Surgeon General, under a new technology. Listen, I’m a builder. My family has been building for five generations. This is an engineering problem that can be fixed. Let’s take this ban of TikTok, this massive national security problem and turn it into a solution for Americans. Let’s make it a win, a win, win.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, mid-January, we will see what happens in this case, and we will watch your potential bid here. Thank you for joining us. We’ll be back in a moment.
